Tartan Army Par Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Secure Par said: So in terms of the loan that means it can be converted into shares In the Germans favour within 5 years. If not the club need to Find the equivalent amount to turn into shares to maintain control. So the investors dont take over and the club get a loan that is interest free with no timescale to pay back… I’m saying right now there is another agenda with these German guys and we will be in free fall next season. No chance there will be an investment in the squad etc. The club don't need to find anything. The investors give us money interest free and unsecured. The investors will be paid back in DAFC shares at any time they feel they wish to do so. If not taken after 5 years DAFC can pay off the loan by giving the investors the shares and making them 80% shareholders in the club. The investors will be controlling shareholders at this point. We're are basically getting the money and more that was agreed under the previous agreement but the investors don't take control of the club this way, where as the did in the previous agreement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parzionale Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 Sounds like great news, especially more money being given. Hopefully to strengthen the squad to keep us in the Championship. This is probably a silly query, but how much percentage of shares do PST (the fans) currently have? Is it not just over 27%? So, if the new investors will eventually have 80% of shares. Are the fans (or PST) to relinquish the remaining percentage? Clearly, I'm rubbish at maths and unkwoledgable on the topic of how shares work. Not the worst thing though. I'm sure fans would happily give that small percentage up for the long-term health of the club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Roy Barry Fan Club Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 Very reasonable question Parzionale: I'll try to explain. The GmbH will eventually own 80% of the Club. This will happen anytime between now and five years. [My own belief is that this will happen sometime after international air travel normalises]. It currently owns 30%. It has taken/will take new shares in DAFC, and nobody has sold anything. So this means that if an individual owned 5% of the Club pre GmbH, then they will end up owning 1% after the current investment is converted into shares. There are about 35 individual shareholders and no-one owned more than about 7%. The PST owned 27% pre GmbH and because of what is called 'dilution' they will end up owning just over 5%. Of course (and here I speak as a personal shareholder myself) the thing to remember is that x% of a company worth nothing is nothing. A smaller percentage of a company worth something is something. Perhaps more importantly for any Pars supporter is the fact that Dunfermline Athletic gets a considerable cash injection which allows it to do the sort of thing which Rosyth Par outlines above. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rengade Master Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 So basically every director, investor and share holder has agreed to a share dilution? Interesting I can't remember the PST mentioning this or agreeing to it. Who may I ask owns the ground at the moment and is that totally separate and what is the share balance here and are GmbH investing in the ground? What stake are GmbH taking in the training ground complex and how will the ownership be defined? Separate company or merged in as part of the club. I'm concerned that eventually GmbH will own 80% of the club something that we were told would never be allowed to happen again and the whole reason the PST were allowed to take a 30% stake in the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 As another small shareholder in the Club I wasn't overly concerned by the announcement. Having read the detail a few times I think its understandable in the circumstances ( particularly the ongoing pandemic and its' restrictions on travel) and indeed certainly continues to show good faith by our new investors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Roy Barry Fan Club Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 Rengade Master: Forgive me but all of this was explained in July when it was announced that GmbH was taking over a 75% shareholding in the Club. The Club explained why at the time. This was approved by the Board of of both DAFC Ltd and Pars United CIC. Two PST Board members sit on the PUCIC Board and the PST Board were themselves consulted and agreed to the matter. I should also say that this was extensively debated on this forum and others in the summer. East End Park continues to be owned by the same individuals and leased to the football club exactly as before. The football club (DAFC Ltd) has taken the long lease of the training ground and it is its asset. Its cash will pay for the refurbishment, and this will be paid for in very large measure by the new funds. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rengade Master Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 10 hours ago, The Roy Barry Fan Club said: Rengade Master: Forgive me but all of this was explained in July when it was announced that GmbH was taking over a 75% shareholding in the Club. The Club explained why at the time. This was approved by the Board of of both DAFC Ltd and Pars United CIC. Two PST Board members sit on the PUCIC Board and the PST Board were themselves consulted and agreed to the matter. I should also say that this was extensively debated on this forum and others in the summer. East End Park continues to be owned by the same individuals and leased to the football club exactly as before. The football club (DAFC Ltd) has taken the long lease of the training ground and it is its asset. Its cash will pay for the refurbishment, and this will be paid for in very large measure by the new funds. That is my concern. GmbH have only bought/invested in the clubs name and the current players. They have nothing else to show for their investment. Leasehold is very much different to owning the training ground. Bob Garmory I think it was who said after the last administration that we must not ever let the club get to a situation where an individual is able to do what GM did to our club, and a 49/51% ownership of shares was put in place. With the PST holding 30% of those shares. The investment is very much welcome but still can't quite understand how a guy from Germany who has spent his life in shipping investments, who seems to have very little involvement in football previously and no connections with the town suddenly decides to invest (with very little hope of a return) in a provincial club in the 2nd tier of Scottish Football during a Global pandemic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piracy Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 47 minutes ago, Rengade Master said: That is my concern. GmbH have only bought/invested in the clubs name and the current players. They have nothing else to show for their investment. Leasehold is very much different to owning the training ground. Bob Garmory I think it was who said after the last administration that we must not ever let the club get to a situation where an individual is able to do what GM did to our club, and a 49/51% ownership of shares was put in place. With the PST holding 30% of those shares. The investment is very much welcome but still can't quite understand how a guy from Germany who has spent his life in shipping investments, who seems to have very little involvement in football previously and no connections with the town suddenly decides to invest (with very little hope of a return) in a provincial club in the 2nd tier of Scottish Football during a Global pandemic. To be fair this involvement started way before this Covid pandemic came along. They could have walked due to the pandemic but given they'd already committed to getting involved with us they demonstrated that commitment by releasing equity early to the club in the early stages of this pandemic. It was a statement of intent, as well as a much needed cash injection for the club. Why choose us?, suppose you could also say 'why not us?' (it is a fair question). In basic terms, Fussball GmbH were looking for a club to invest in. They'd been in touch with many clubs in the likes of Spain, Greece etc but none of them fitted their criteria. Our club apparently did fit their criteria, also they hit it off with Ross McArthur meaning they seen both a club and a Chairman they wanted to work with. Of course all of this is a matter of record already, the interview with the guys is on YouTube for instance. My concern isn't why they're here, it's more that if they get pi**ed off with the seemingly constant distractions (Covid, Brexit, poor league form, managerial changes, disenfranchised support etc) they up sticks and they leave us with unresolved issues. However I should really be a bit more trusting, but I'm not finding that's coming naturally just now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number Eleven Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 I think that it’s right to maintain a healthy scepticism, given the history of what happened with the previous regime. I have the same question about why the investors want to spend their time and money on the Pars, as there is no previous connection but yesterday’s announcement proves they are committed, even increasing on the previously agreed amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digs Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 30 minutes ago, Number Eleven said: I think that it’s right to maintain a healthy scepticism, given the history of what happened with the previous regime. I have the same question about why the investors want to spend their time and money on the Pars, as there is no previous connection but yesterday’s announcement proves they are committed, even increasing on the previously agreed amount. They've already answered that as well though, several times. It's been said right from the start they were looking for a a club that matched their social, inclusive and community values. With their St Pauli associations, who are well known as being quite left wing and progressive, they wanted a club who displayed similar values that they could grow and improve through these channels. The stuff we did after coming out of admin and the way the club was run, especially under Ross, they felt displayed a lot of synergy with their own ideas about what a local community club should be about. This is why they were so dismayed at the way Ross was treated as it went totally against those values. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piracy Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 Worth watching if you didn't catch it first time round. It's direct answers to direct questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piracy Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 Just to add, that's twice I've been in front of a contingent of the Fussball GmbH guys at the club and they've impressed me with their demeanour and pretty much satisfied with their answers. I've no doubt their intent is honourable and hopefully once Covid eases up we can hear more from them. As I've said numerous times over the past few month, the club does need to work on its communication. The more quality information put out there the less suspicion and supposition there will be, therefore the less anxiety and misinterpretation. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number Eleven Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Digs said: They've already answered that as well though, several times. It's been said right from the start they were looking for a a club that matched their social, inclusive and community values. With their St Pauli associations, who are well known as being quite left wing and progressive, they wanted a club who displayed similar values that they could grow and improve through these channels. The stuff we did after coming out of admin and the way the club was run, especially under Ross, they felt displayed a lot of synergy with their own ideas about what a local community club should be about. This is why they were so dismayed at the way Ross was treated as it went totally against those values. Thanks and I know the answer the investors have given, my point is that it seems odd to me that they would travel so far from home to find a club that fit their criteria. However they have made the investment they promised and so I’m willing to take them at face value, despite my scepticism. Edited January 12, 2022 by Number Eleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berry Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 I’ve not really got the business acumen to comment on the specifics, my underlying thought was why not just do it now, if they plan to do it in the future anyway regardless. The investment is all well and good, the stuff going on in Rosyth is all well and good, but all pointless if we continue to fail to get it right on game day. Winning is all it takes to get supporters on board, we’re relatively simple creatures. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosythpar Posted January 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) I think the board need to try and fix the reputation of the club. The news about the new training ground is great but the way two local teams got treated in the process is not good and doesn't sit well with people in the community. They approached rosyth first then didn't tell them that they would not be involved anymore and then gave Inverkeithing United a very short time to remove equipment and kits etc out of the civil service building. If they want to be a community club they need to improve on this kind of stuff. Edited January 12, 2022 by rosythpar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.