GG Riva Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 18 minutes ago, rosythpar said: A few ambitious clubs in Scotland at the moment-Cove,Queens Park and Kelty, these three teams will be looking to stabilise in the Championship very soon or go even further to the top flight. I think Kelty are a bit different from Gretna if you look into it. Yes the two owners bankrolled their clubs to get them up the leagues but they are two completely opposite characters. Dean McKenzie does not like to be in the public eye and has done a lot of work on improving the stadium and putting structures in place for the future of Kelty. He has also been associated with the club for a long time,I am sure his Dad was groundsman at the club before? I find it unlikely he will walk away from them and let them go bust. The chairman Ian Thomson also puts in a lot of work behind the scenes and so does the committee who have been involved for years since they played juniors. I'm pretty sure Gretna's owner didn't "walk away" but died, so his money dried up. No matter how much money a rich owner ploughs into a club, it has to be sustainable when he leaves, as Piracy and others have pointed out, otherwise the club will regress back to its optimum position. Kelty would be League 2 at best. Ross Co. are another club who will drop down the league's once Uncle Roy calls it a day. Dingwall has a population of about 6k has it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosythpar Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 13 minutes ago, GG Riva said: I'm pretty sure Gretna's owner didn't "walk away" but died, so his money dried up. No matter how much money a rich owner ploughs into a club, it has to be sustainable when he leaves, as Piracy and others have pointed out, otherwise the club will regress back to its optimum position. Kelty would be League 2 at best. Ross Co. are another club who will drop down the league's once Uncle Roy calls it a day. Dingwall has a population of about 6k has it not? The Gretna owner stopped putting in as much money as he had been before he died and then when he did pass away it got messy. A good article in this months nutmeg magazine about Gretna. I dont think Dean McKenzie will be walking away from Kelty anytime soon,he is expanding his businesses,just opened a new soccer shop in Aberdeen,just opened a new hospitality bar at NCP and plans are in place to build a new stand with a community cafe and hospitality suite. You could also ask the same question for us GG,what happens when Fussball GMBH leave us? We should be more worried about our own financial situation if we do get relegated. How will we be able to afford the wages of players on 2 year contracts at the moment in League 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelty_par Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 21 minutes ago, rosythpar said: The Gretna owner stopped putting in as much money as he had been before he died and then when he did pass away it got messy. A good article in this months nutmeg magazine about Gretna. I dont think Dean McKenzie will be walking away from Kelty anytime soon,he is expanding his businesses,just opened a new soccer shop in Aberdeen,just opened a new hospitality bar at NCP and plans are in place to build a new stand with a community cafe and hospitality suite. You could also ask the same question for us GG,what happens when Fussball GMBH leave us? We should be more worried about our own financial situation if we do get relegated. How will we be able to afford the wages of players on 2 year contracts at the moment in League 1. I’d imagine they’ll be relegation clauses into contracts, well I hope so cause some of the players signed up beyond this season id like to see be moved on tbh. Whether we stay up or go down, the clear out yet again will be huge in the summer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Riva Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, rosythpar said: The Gretna owner stopped putting in as much money as he had been before he died and then when he did pass away it got messy. A good article in this months nutmeg magazine about Gretna. I dont think Dean McKenzie will be walking away from Kelty anytime soon,he is expanding his businesses,just opened a new soccer shop in Aberdeen,just opened a new hospitality bar at NCP and plans are in place to build a new stand with a community cafe and hospitality suite. You could also ask the same question for us GG,what happens when Fussball GMBH leave us? We should be more worried about our own financial situation if we do get relegated. How will we be able to afford the wages of players on 2 year contracts at the moment in League 1. The biggest difference between Kelty and the Pars is our fan base. I believe we have a core support in excess of 3k which could swell to at least 5k if the team was doing well and established in the Premiership. Factor in walk up and visiting fans and you'd be looking at a healthy turnover and that's before TV and sponsorship monies are considered. With the best will in the world, Kelty Hearts cannot compare to us. Dunfermline's population is about 10x that of Kelty. We can survive in the SPFL without our investors, Kelty would struggle to stay in League 2 if Dean McKenzie left them, unless another sugar daddy replaced him. Edited March 28, 2022 by GG Riva Grammar 🙁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossmcno1 Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 16 hours ago, GG Riva said: Never been more serious in my life, Ross. Look, I can understand someone from Kelty deciding to support their local team, but why on earth would a Pars fan from say Valleyfield or Dalgety Bay decide to abandon us for a Johnny-come-lately village team? It makes no sense to me. Unfortunately bud if I was to try to understand everything a human does that makes no sense to me id be wondering all day! The reality is that the core fan you talk about at East End is in reality about 2000 die hards with between 300 and 1500 walk ups depending on how the team is doing. Fan engagement with the club has been declining steadily since 2017 I think. Definitely some still worried about Covid too. Kelty have appeared at a time where some Pars fans feel disengaged, and they’re getting a better experience going there. Might not be huge numbers but let’s say on average 100 or so are going there - that’s a good £2k per game out of our pockets and in Keltys, multiply that up through the season and you can see the issue. The key thing is of course the longevity of their club and I suspect they will soon run into the usual issues that appear from quick developing clubs. In meantime tho we will definitely suffer some losses in fan numbers and income. In some senses the average football fan has become less tribal and more open to consuming their football in different ways, whether that be ground hopping or watching via different media. There are of course many ways to stop it and focus on what we can do to attract Pars fans back, and my hope was with our CEO in the door that a timely update on current thoughts and actions would have been forthcoming. I understand the clubs wishes to stay under the radar with current form and the situation on the park and not to have distractions, but it’s too bloody quiet right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 I'm not seing many people choosing Kelty hearts game over Dunfermline ones tbh, I know of a few that will head along if Dunfermline are not playing/playing away, but that isn't Dunfermline losing fans. How long that will continue when prices continue to rise is another question aswell... I'm not sure the attendances are terribly accurate that they give out either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosythpar Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 I think our BOD could learn a few things from Kelty Hearts on being more of a community club,the way we treated Rosyth FC and Inverkeithing United was shocking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinePar Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 36 minutes ago, Grant said: I'm not seing many people choosing Kelty hearts game over Dunfermline ones tbh, I know of a few that will head along if Dunfermline are not playing/playing away, but that isn't Dunfermline losing fans. I would have thought the main risk is young fans who might have come to EEP gradually opting for Kelty as their first team. On the other hand, if they have a connection with Kelty, then why not? I hate when people travel west from Dunfermline for the gruesome twosome, so I can't really complain if fans from Kelty support Kelty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Riva Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 1 hour ago, rosythpar said: I think our BOD could learn a few things from Kelty Hearts on being more of a community club,the way we treated Rosyth FC and Inverkeithing United was shocking. Our club was doing pretty well as a community club, before Covid put a stop to a number of excellent initiatives, RP, so I think it's very harsh of you to suggest we could learn from Kelty Hearts. We were engaging with Kelty PS when the local club was still scratching around in the Junior ranks. 🙂 I don't know all the details of the relationship breakdown with Rosyth or Inverkeithing, so I don't feel I can comment on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelty_par Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 16 minutes ago, GG Riva said: Our club was doing pretty well as a community club, before Covid put a stop to a number of excellent initiatives, RP, so I think it's very harsh of you to suggest we could learn from Kelty Hearts. We were engaging with Kelty PS when the local club was still scratching around in the Junior ranks. 🙂 I don't know all the details of the relationship breakdown with Rosyth or Inverkeithing, so I don't feel I can comment on that. Really? Crowds have been dwindling since the Dundee United play off defeat. Looking back at YouTube highlights and the difference year on year in the Norrie is quite a drop each season. Obviously covid impacted but the decline in attendance was there before. Since we exited administration, I just felt the connection between fans and the club hasn’t been the same for whatever reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosythpar Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 23 minutes ago, GG Riva said: Our club was doing pretty well as a community club, before Covid put a stop to a number of excellent initiatives, RP, so I think it's very harsh of you to suggest we could learn from Kelty Hearts. We were engaging with Kelty PS when the local club was still scratching around in the Junior ranks. 🙂 I don't know all the details of the relationship breakdown with Rosyth or Inverkeithing, so I don't feel I can comment on that. We could learn from Kelty on how to build up good relationships with other clubs. Kelty seem to have a good friendly atmosphere about them,the same cant be said about East End over the last few years,we are a club on the decline. There was an article in the press about the way Rosyth was treated over the training facilities at the civil service. They also gave Inverkeithing United 24 hours notice to remove all their equipment from the building or it would be getting put in the bin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 5 hours ago, kelty_par said: Since we exited administration, I just felt the connection between fans and the club hasn’t been the same for whatever reason Because we haven't been very good at football, but that's the crux of the matter. We've had a succession of poor and underwhelming seasons, outwith a bright start under AJ it's never felt like we were going to challenge for promotion from the championship, if we were to appoint a decent manager, get a good team together and look likely to win the title you could guarantee there'd be no talk or complaints about the connection between the fans and the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Riva Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 5 hours ago, kelty_par said: Really? Crowds have been dwindling since the Dundee United play off defeat. Looking back at YouTube highlights and the difference year on year in the Norrie is quite a drop each season. Obviously covid impacted but the decline in attendance was there before. Since we exited administration, I just felt the connection between fans and the club hasn’t been the same for whatever reason I wouldn't use match attendance as a barometer for measuring the Pars success as a community club. I was thinking more along the lines of how well the club engages with the local community. I know you're well aware of the different initiatives in the Schools Engagement Programme, given you were involved at the outset and the stadium tour was your idea. Match attendance is always likely to mirror success - or lack of it - on the pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Riva Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 5 hours ago, rosythpar said: We could learn from Kelty on how to build up good relationships with other clubs. Kelty seem to have a good friendly atmosphere about them,the same cant be said about East End over the last few years,we are a club on the decline. There was an article in the press about the way Rosyth was treated over the training facilities at the civil service. They also gave Inverkeithing United 24 hours notice to remove all their equipment from the building or it would be getting put in the bin. I don't doubt Kelty has a good, friendly match day atmosphere. Do we not have one at EEP? Perhaps this season has seen rumblings of discontent - and with good reason - what do you suggest the Pars should do to improve the match day experience for fans? Not being a smartass, but if we were up there challenging for promotion, most fans would be perfectly happy with the pre-match experience, which probably explains the atmosphere at NCP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 If we didn't have a good relationship then why would other clubs have voted for RM to be there representive on the spfl board? In my lifetime I've never seen the club make more effort to engage with the community, when people talk about a disconnect between the fans it's purely down to how we're doing on the pitch, not off it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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