DA-go Par Adonis Posted May 24, 2022 Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Digs said: That's quite the straw man argument you've made there 😂 Rangick wasn't even in post for the whole season either. Difficult to do otherwise when you're suggesting that McPake did a better job than McGlynn in 2020/21... Merely trying to illustrate how ludicrous that argument is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digs Posted May 24, 2022 Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, Grant said: Hearts scored six against Dundee, Alloa and QoS, five against Ayr, three against Dundee (again), Inverness, Alloa. Winning 17 games in 27 games. That's not blowing teams away? They were 12 points ahead after those 27 games aswell, with the title being wrapped up its not a shock they weren't going full tilt every game. "it's those who have done the best job overall in the end who finish in the best positions. " That's just simply not true though either? Surely you take into accounts budgets and expectations for deciding how good a job a manager has done? The job Dick Campbell done was far more impressive than McInness for example, in Dundees case scraping above Raith Rovers despite having a much larger budget doesn't necessitate that he done the second best job in the division. As I said, Hearts were deserved title winners but the league was competitive, we beat them 3-0, they got beat 3-2 by the Rovers at home, they scraped by East Fife in the League Cup, conceded 3 in the Ayr game you mention above, got beat off Brora in the Scottish, got beat off QoTS again at home, and when they beat the Rovers 0-4 they were playing against 10 men for a 3rd of the game. So, I maintain, they didn;t blow teams away, as they didn't have it all their own way, the league was competitive and teams were all capable of beating each other on their day, which is illustrated by that. The league table is all that matters at the end of the day. If McPake tumbles us over the line winning the league on the last day are you not going to celebrate due to the manner in which it was won? All that counbts in football is the results. Yes, you can have opinions on how the manager has gone about his role but ultimately, if he gets results it matters not a jot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digs Posted May 24, 2022 Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, DA-go Par Adonis said: Difficult to do otherwise when you're suggesting that McPake did a better job than McGlynn in 2020/21... Merely trying to illustrate how ludicrous that argument is. He got promoted. I don't see any medals getting handed out for doing the job under more difficult circumstances. Commendable? absolutely. Important in the context of results? Not at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Soze Posted May 24, 2022 Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 22 minutes ago, Digs said: The League table disagrees What did you make of Dick Campbells season? Deserved the manager of year accolade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Posted May 24, 2022 Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Digs said: As I said, Hearts were deserved title winners but the league was competitive, we beat them 3-0, they got beat 3-2 by the Rovers at home, they scraped by East Fife in the League Cup, conceded 3 in the Ayr game you mention above, got beat off Brora in the Scottish, got beat off QoTS again at home, and when they beat the Rovers 0-4 they were playing against 10 men for a 3rd of the game. So, I maintain, they didn;t blow teams away, as they didn't have it all their own way, the league was competitive and teams were all capable of beating each other on their day, which is illustrated by that. The league table is all that matters at the end of the day. If McPake tumbles us over the line winning the league on the last day are you not going to celebrate due to the manner in which it was won? All that counbts in football is the results. Yes, you can have opinions on how the manager has gone about his role but ultimately, if he gets results it matters not a jot. You mentioned 3 out of there 4 losses, in 27 games. They scored five or more goals in the same amount of games they lost, and you still maintain that they didn't blow teams away? In a shortened season? Yell ye whit, if we scored 5+ goals, 4 times in the first 27 games of next years league season I can't wait to try and convince people we haven't blown anyone away. The league table is all that matters, but that isn't what you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digs Posted May 24, 2022 Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Keyser Soze said: What did you make of Dick Campbells season? Deserved the manager of year accolade? Absolutely, he still won nothing though, except some extra prize money. I'm merely countering the argument that this is a poor appointment because of the players McPake had at his disposal at Dundee and that he should have done better, when in fact, he got his team promoted, ultimately finishing where he would be expected to having the second biggest budget. I'm also pointing out the flaw in the argument that he seems to be getting no credit for doing so, whilst taking all the blame for them struggling after promotion. He's either liable for both or neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Posted May 24, 2022 Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 Wild how the Man Utd managers done a better job than Davie Moyes last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Posted May 24, 2022 Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 5 minutes ago, Digs said: Absolutely, he still won nothing though, except some extra prize money. I'm merely countering the argument that this is a poor appointment because of the players McPake had at his disposal at Dundee and that he should have done better, when in fact, he got his team promoted, ultimately finishing where he would be expected to having the second biggest budget. I'm also pointing out the flaw in the argument that he seems to be getting no credit for doing so, whilst taking all the blame for them struggling after promotion. He's either liable for both or neither. There's more depth to judging a football manager than league positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Soze Posted May 24, 2022 Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 21 minutes ago, Digs said: Absolutely, By your own argument, wouldn’t the league table disagree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digs Posted May 24, 2022 Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 21 minutes ago, Grant said: There's more depth to judging a football manager than league positions. You should tell that to chairmen the World over who seem to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digs Posted May 24, 2022 Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 12 minutes ago, Keyser Soze said: By your own argument, wouldn’t the league table disagree? Yes, and No. He wasn't expected to win the league, he wasn't even expected to get to the playoffs, survival was his target and he waaaaaay exceeded that, therefore the table agrees that he has had an outstanding season worthy of praise. Had he been expected to win the league or get promoted, then absolutely, the table wouldn't be lying. Using this analogy in the context of the thread above, it was put forward that McPake underperformed due to the players and budget at his disposal. In his case he did exactly what he set out to do, get promoted, so therefore, the table didn't lie and he achieved exactly what was expected of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digs Posted May 24, 2022 Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 Listen, we're arguing over semantics and minutiae of detail, the overall point is this. He's coming in with half a squad, and most of that squad has performed for us at the league above in the past. Therefore, it should be expected that they can do so at this level. Where he will earn his corn is when he starts to make signings to compliment or even improve the squad, and to see if he can get a tune out of it as a whole. This league is going to be tighter than two coats of paint this year, make no mistake, so this isn't going to be like last time in this league. However if he gets us up, even if it's by the playoffs, I won't care. Title is the target, promotion is the minimum. How he does that shouldn't matter to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Soze Posted May 24, 2022 Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Digs said: Listen, we're arguing over semantics Essentially the entire history of Internet forums summed up in a few words! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Posted May 24, 2022 Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 8 minutes ago, Digs said: You should tell that to chairmen the World over who seem to disagree. They absolutely don't. I'm pretty sure everyone bar you is on the same page here. Using your very, very, very flawed logic no manager would ever move up, or down the table with regards to changing jobs, because where they finished is how good a manager they are. It's a ridiculously flawed logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digs Posted May 24, 2022 Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Keyser Soze said: Essentially the entire history of Internet forums summed up in a few words! 😂True story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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