Dundee Utd

[Keyser Soze]

On 09/12/2021 at 10:54, Keyser Soze said:

I’ve never rated Ross tbh. Has he actually done anything to merit this reputation he has. He’s well dressed, that’s about the only compliment I can give him tbh. 

^^^ as stated last December 

Ross is not a good manager. He was well backed at St Mirren in a poor championship and other than that ‘success’ he’s been a mixture of mediocre and terrible. 

[GG Riva]

Leaving aside the merits or demerits of Jack Ross as a manager, none of us can take any pleasure in that scoreline.

Celtic and Rangers are behaving rather like two large supermarket chains, intent on wiping out all the small shops, but they don't seem to realise that football is completely different from the retail industry and that competition is healthy for the game and needs to be helped to thrive rather than eliminated. 

[Boston Red Sox]

Yeh yeh GG, we know you have a soft spot for the cellic 😉

[Rengade Master]

3 hours ago, GG Riva said:

Leaving aside the merits or demerits of Jack Ross as a manager, none of us can take any pleasure in that scoreline.

Celtic and Rangers are behaving rather like two large supermarket chains, intent on wiping out all the small shops, but they don't seem to realise that football is completely different from the retail industry and that competition is healthy for the game and needs to be helped to thrive rather than eliminated. 

I think you are totally wrong on that GGR.

They have ambitions to play in the EPL, always have done, they have to prove their worth on the pitch, as the commercial reasons are there for all to see.

Having both now qualified for the CL, running riot over all being put in front of them is the final dotting of the i's and crossing of the T's.

The Atlantic League was the first toe in the water.

With pressure from SKY, BT, Premier and ESPN the Global product with the likes of Celtic and Rangers in it is enormous.

If they are both able to compete in the CL and turn out not to be canon fodder than that place in the EPL won't be far behind, we will be left with Celtic B and Rangers B in our leagues to satisfy the home supporters.

Don't think it is any longer the case of if just when!

[GG Riva]

26 minutes ago, Rengade Master said:

I think you are totally wrong on that GGR.

They have ambitions to play in the EPL, always have done, they have to prove their worth on the pitch, as the commercial reasons are there for all to see.

Having both now qualified for the CL, running riot over all being put in front of them is the final dotting of the i's and crossing of the T's.

The Atlantic League was the first toe in the water.

With pressure from SKY, BT, Premier and ESPN the Global product with the likes of Celtic and Rangers in it is enormous.

If they are both able to compete in the CL and turn out not to be canon fodder than that place in the EPL won't be far behind, we will be left with Celtic B and Rangers B in our leagues to satisfy the home supporters.

Don't think it is any longer the case of if just when!

The only flaw in your theory is that the the Premier League clubs don't want them and will never vote them in. Why should two of the smaller clubs effectively vote themselves out of it?

[GG Riva]

3 hours ago, Boston Red Sox said:

Yeh yeh GG, we know you have a soft spot for the cellic 😉

I was speaking to a Celtic fan this morning who asked if I'd seen the game and wasn't it great. I told him I hadn't and assured him it wasn't at all great and proceeded to have a wee rant. He wasn't even aware that it's almost 40 years since the title left Glasgow. 

[Rengade Master]

5 minutes ago, GG Riva said:

The only flaw in your theory is that the the Premier League clubs don't want them and will never vote them in. Why should two of the smaller clubs effectively vote themselves out of it?

TV revenue and something as simple as increasing the league by 2 teams would outweigh both those points. The fact Celtic and Rangers B teams are already in the Scottish leagues also covers the home issue. Those without busfares are covered, while still bringing in a good crowd to Scottish games enough to fill most stadiums I'd imagine and playing future Old Firm stars.

[GG Riva]

2 hours ago, Rengade Master said:

TV revenue and something as simple as increasing the league by 2 teams would outweigh both those points. The fact Celtic and Rangers B teams are already in the Scottish leagues also covers the home issue. Those without busfares are covered, while still bringing in a good crowd to Scottish games enough to fill most stadiums I'd imagine and playing future Old Firm stars.

Aye, that might work, RM, but it would mean an extra 4 rounds of fixtures. The bigger clubs, who participate regularly in Europe, are already complaining about fixture overload and regularly field reserve sides in the League and FA Cups. 

The other factor is that some folk in English football have the perception that the Glasgow clubs are followed by a large number of unruly fans. That is not going to help their cause and I can't see SKY or BT being able to shoehorn two unwanted clubs into the Greatest League in the World.....

[Rengade Master]

You forget where the moneys come from to make it the greatest league in the world, and how that has to be refreshed every so often to keep it at the top of the tree on the worldwide stage.

SKY etc risk is that A N Other broadcaster offer huge sums to form a breakaway league with Europe and that devalues its current golden goose which is the EPL.

Like it or not Celtic and Rangers have a massive worldwide following and the Old Firm game this weekend will be watched globally by probably more people than the Manchester or Merseyside derbies.

[GG Riva]

2 hours ago, Rengade Master said:

You forget where the moneys come from to make it the greatest league in the world, and how that has to be refreshed every so often to keep it at the top of the tree on the worldwide stage.

SKY etc risk is that A N Other broadcaster offer huge sums to form a breakaway league with Europe and that devalues its current golden goose which is the EPL.

Like it or not Celtic and Rangers have a massive worldwide following and the Old Firm game this weekend will be watched globally by probably more people than the Manchester or Merseyside derbies.

We all know where the money's coming from, but I can't believe the so-called Big 6 would allow SKY to browbeat them into inviting Celtic and Rangers into the EPL unless they wanted them in and there hasn't been the slightest inkling that they do. The smaller clubs definitely don't  - turkeys and Christmas, eh? (The Greatest League in the World was heavy sarcasm, btw) The chances of a breakaway Super league were dealt a very heavy blow not so long ago - for sure the owners and chairmen were hot for it but the fans weren't and they won the day. I think these clubs will be licking their wounds for a long time to come. 

[Al k]

2 hours ago, Rengade Master said:

You forget where the moneys come from to make it the greatest league in the world, and how that has to be refreshed every so often to keep it at the top of the tree on the worldwide stage.

SKY etc risk is that A N Other broadcaster offer huge sums to form a breakaway league with Europe and that devalues its current golden goose which is the EPL.

Like it or not Celtic and Rangers have a massive worldwide following and the Old Firm game this weekend will be watched globally by probably more people than the Manchester or Merseyside derbies.

I'm not sure about that, never paid attention to the viewing figures for any derby worldwide. Personally I couldn't tell you one person that's watched it in three different areas of London and Epsom in nearly 13 years being down here. 

I've never once saw it being shown in a pub either or advertised other that a couple of Scottish or sports bars. 

[Stanza]

I suspect RM is correct, and within 10 years there will be a revamping of top level club football in Britain or possibly in Europe.

That could see Celtic and Rangers in the EPL, leaving the Scottish league system in the same state as the Welsh League is without Cardiff and Swansea. It could become the British Premier League as a sop to national feelings and operate as a closed shop in the American fashion.

Obviously that would be resisted by the SFA and UEFA, but the precedent of rich clubs getting their way has already been set, and a European Super League of some sort is IMO only a matter of time. The top 40 teams in Europe would make for a very attractive 2-division league structure.

Obviously I hope I'm wrong, that all the dirty money in the game finds a new home and that football is eventually restored to the local communities who were its lifeblood for over a century - but the trend is in only one direction.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Stanza

[parsforlife]

I’ve been hearing the OF to England story my whole life,  it’s never once come close 

Edited August 29, 2022 by parsforlife

[GG Riva]

12 hours ago, parsforlife said:

I’ve been hearing the OF to England story my whole life,  it’s never once come close 

Both clubs have used this as a  threat to get their own way during the last 50 years. We've ended up with smaller leagues with teams meeting 4 times a season, clubs keeping their home gate money, a distribution of sponsorship monies heavily skewed in favour of the top 2 places in the Premiership  and a voting structure which only allows change if both Celtic and Rangers are in favour of it. All of these changes have contributed to increasing the gap between the OF and the rest into a yawning chasm.

And before anyone gives me any whataboutery about how it's just the same in Spain etc. that doesn't mean it's OK.

[rosythpar]

Jack Ross sacked by Dundee United.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Deutsch Par
Merged threads so felt edit was needed for sentence to make sense